If you’re new to the party, HERE are the previous posts in this series. If you want to skip the history and prefer the twitter version, I’m having an ongoing conversation with a born-again atheist. When I say “born-again atheist” I mean he was a born again Christian, but is now an atheist.
Below is AtypicalAtheist’s response to my second question: (CLICK HERE to read my first question and his two-part answer.)
JSM: Why do you view faith in God as unreasonable, illogical and irrational?
AtypicalAtheist: Regarding question #2, I’ll try to answer in a form less than a book this time… 😀
The super-short answer is this – I don’t accept the existence of God, gods, or any documents, books, letters, or anything ‘on faith’ because I reject faith as a valid means to acquire knowledge. The specific object of faith, whether UFOs or gods is irrelevant. Reason is one’s only guide to knowledge. From this position, if doctrines of theism must be accepted on faith, theism is necessarily excluded from the realm of reason.
Further, the entire book is replete with contempt for man’s ability to reason our desire for knowledge. You need go no further than Genesis and the story of Adam and Eve. Beyond this though, is verse after verse of hostility to wisdom and knowledge.
Add to that the biblical means of tying faith and morality together which ends up equating doubt and disbelief with immorality. Rather, one must believe uncritically, or be condemned as immoral.
Finally, consider the coercive nature of faith: * The bribery side – if you have faith, you go to heaven ( John 3:!6 ) * The blackmail side – you face God’s wrath if you do not have faith ( John 3:36 ).
Essentially, the bible says that you must believe in Jesus, regardless of the evidence on the matter, or be subjected to eternal torture (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).
Threatening punishment for disbelief is strong-arm coercion and intimidation. On these grounds alone, it must be rejected as irrational and unreasonable.
Whew – that one was much shorter than the other one. 😀
If you’re new to the party, HERE are the previous posts in this series. If you want to skip the history and prefer the twitter version, I’m having an ongoing conversation with a born-again atheist. When I say “born-again atheist” I mean he was a born again Christian, but is now an atheist.
Note: This post is my response to AtypicalAthiest’s two part answer to my question:
“How did you – a self-professed born again Christian – become an atheist?”
(These posts are weeks behind the actual emails we are sending.
In reading over this post again, I can already see something I’m going to have to retract.)
JSM: wow.
I had to stop reading your reply to my first question for a few minutes because I was completely overwhelmed. I am honored and humbled that you would share this with anybody, much less me, someone you hardly know. I’m not just blowing rainbows.
SERIOUSLY. Honored and humbled.
One of the conditions of this interchange is that I get to be authentic with you, so I believe I have to tell you, in full disclosure, that I am praying for you. I said before that I will never be able to reason someone into a faith in Christ. I honestly believe there is absolutely nothing I can say that will poof you into a Christian, so I’m not even going to try. I know I will not say something brilliant that prompts you to exclaim, “oh my gosh! That’s IT! THAT’S what I needed to hear in order to have faith!” I can’t convert you. I can’t “save” you.
But I believe God can.
So my prayer for you is simple: “Lord, please soften AtypicalAtheist’s heart and open his mind.”
And I’m praying that God will equip me for these conversations.
But back to your testimony. I do want to respond to some things, but I have to show you something first:
The inscription shows my mom gave this to me for Christmas in 1980. I was 16. It was a good first Bible, but it isn’t an authorized translation. It’s not actually a translation at all, it’s a paraphrase. Check out the explanation HERE:
He describes The Living Bible by saying “It leaves out details from the Greek manuscripts and makes up its own details out of thin air. It “reads nice” but it reads wrong.” (One cool thing this guy did was to show the same verse in about 30 different versions.)
I don’t know when, but after a few years of reading The Living Bible, I suddenly SAW the word “paraphrased” and it hit me. Paraphrased? pshhh. I can paraphrase. What does the BIBLE say?
I started collecting translations. The only paraphrase I use these days is The Message, and I view it more as a commentary. You can find many translations online too. My go-to site is http://www.biblegateway.com and for researching original language and some thorough commentaries, I use http://www.blueletterbible.com. For everyday reading, I use ESV (English Standard Version) and for mid-level learning, I have parallel bible (two versions, with verses side by side on the same page) containing the NIV and The Message, but when I want the most literal translation, I go to NASB (New American Standard Bible). When I need even more help, I go to my friend, who has just embarked on a plan to read the Bible this year – in GREEK.
okay, NOW back to your testimony.
You attended a Baptist church and a Nazarene church. In the seventies. That explains a LOT. Heavy doctrinal rules. Conservative. Fundamental. Legalistic. Arrogant, unchecked theocracy running rampant.
Christianity buried so deep in religion, it’s almost impossible to find.
And I have to admit. I would personally like to smack the crap out of the legalistic, deluded, Christians you were exposed to.
Much evil has been done in the name of God.
MUCH evil.
And I repeat. I would like to smack the CRAP out of the legalistic, deluded Christians you were exposed to.
Instead, I’ll settle for sending a message to them via the internet, passing back through time:
yo. lean over. so I can smack you on the back of the head. WHAT were you thinking? idiot. How many people have believed you? How many people have rejected God because of your confusing, unbending interpretation of a punishing and unreasonable God?
okay. I’m done. for now.
When I was younger, I found myself bombarded by some of the same conflicting and nonsensical rules and confusing interpretations. How did I handle it? Well, when I was 11 or 12, I told my pastor – in front of a classroom of my peers, that something he said was stupid. Here’s the back story on that one:
Then, I auto-piloted through church until I was fifteen, when I accepted Christ. That’s when I started searching. I seek knowledge. It’s what I do. Because I have issues (that’s another story). But also because I know I’m not all that special. Somewhere, sometime, somehow, someone has gone through whatever it is that I’m going through. And I’m convinced someone wrote about it. I’m usually right. And I can learn from both their discoveries and their mistakes.
When I first became a Christian, I began attending a Southern Baptist church. It was 1979. Southern Baptist. Lots of rules. I wanted to know WHY. I questioned everything I was told. And quickly learned that expressing doubt equated to heretic. So I toned down the questions and sought answers on my own. Since I was a new Christian, I didn’t really know how to do that, and my spiritual grown was sloooowwwww. It was a confusing time. But when I was told something I believed was wrong, I knew this:
it was the people who were getting it wrong.
Because people are flawed. People are subjective. People have issues. They interpret everything through their own filters.
So I sought knowledge. On my own. So I could interpret through my own filters. 🙂
My husband will tell you I have a problem with authority. (I will concede that I failed submission school.) Bottom line? I’m in charge of my own learning, thankyouverymuch. I seek information from every source I can find. I call myself an incurable bibliophile and I love to hear people’s stories. But if someone tells me something that doesn’t sound reasonable, I research it.
To death.
I was in my 20s when I started reading books on apologetics. Not because I wanted to be able to defend my faith, but because I wanted answers. It was about that time I purchased Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Volume I. If I was going to depend on the Bible for answers and wisdom, I needed to confirm the Bible was a verified historical resource. I mentioned before that ETDaV was a difficult read, but it provided some of the evidence I was searching for and spurred me to search for more. At this point, I have a stack of books on apologetics, all read because I was seeking answers to my own doubts. I still refer to them. Because I still have questions.
I don’t read much fiction. I like to say that I keep all my fiction books at the library. But I devour non-fiction. I read commentaries and books on theology, because I want – and need – to think outside my own filter. I know my perspective is skewed by my past. I am rarely, if ever, satisfied by my own interpretation of something I learn. Hence the voracious reading. Authors are my favorite conversationalists. My journal and my blog are my favorite therapists and my clearest mirrors. And I talk to people. People who hold similar beliefs and people who believe very differently that I do.
I’ve learned from experience, that when I depend wholly on myself, I find what I’m looking for.
Because when I seek knowledge in a vacuum, sometimes, what I find isn’t truth. Sometimes, what I find is rationalization and support for what I want to believe or do.
I hate it when that happens. It’s not logical. It’s not pragmatic.
That’s one reason I’m willing to read the book you recommended.
Something I find compelling about your history is that you refer often to religion and doctrine, either by stating the actual word religion or through your description of elements of religion and doctrine. I want to think about this a little more, but the gist is this: I don’t see a relationship with Christ evidenced in anything you’ve shared. All that religion and doctrine? You’re going to hear this a lot from me. Are you ready?
Irrelevant. What does all that have to do with CHRIST?
NOT irrelevant to your life. Clearly, your LIFE – your marriage, your parenting, everything – have been significantly impacted by all that (warped) religion and doctrine. When I say irrelevant, I mean that religion and doctrine have nothing to do with a relationship with Christ.
You said you accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior. It sounds to me like you accepted Him as your Savior, but your discipleship was so corrupt that your relationship with Christ was wrenched apart before you ever got a chance to experience Him being Lord of your life. Like I said, I need to think on this some more.
I know there’s more in your testimony that I want to respond to, and I haven’t even begun looking up the verses you included in your answer to my question “Why do you view faith in God as unreasonable, illogical and irrational?” But in the meantime, I have a question. To what are you referring when you say God commanded the killing of children? Is that a reference to Elijah’s bald head incident or something else?
This is the 15th post of a series. I started out telling a chronological story, but got derailed before I could get past August of 2012. I’ve addressed the derailing tangent to death. I’m tired of talking about something I wasn’t even talking about. I’m skipping WAY ahead in my story. Maybe I’ll get back to explaining how God brought me to where I am today, maybe not. Today, I’m cutting to the chase. And I can see another tangent coming at me already, so I’m hoping an acknowledgement will help me nip that in the bud. (If you need to catch up or review, CLICK HERE to view a page listing all the posts in the series.)
I’m going to say hard things. I’ve spent a week writing this particular post and I’ve prayed about it for hours. and hours. and hours. and HOURS. Hard. Things. I promise you I’m saying them in a spirit of edification.
After a 14 post lead-in…
HERE’S MY POINT:
THERE. IS. MORE.
“I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.” John 10:10
Christ came that we may have life, and have it abundantly, in all its fullness.
Not abundant blessings or stuff.
Abundant LIFE.
Abundant life isn’t a state of existence to be pursued or attained. It isn’t a level of success or a degree of spirituality. It is an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ and it leads to a dependance on Him that can’t be met through or in or by ANYthing else.
Without Christ, I can accomplish NOTHING of eternal significance. Without Christ, I have NOTHING. Without Christ, I am NOTHING.
And before I say another word, I need to acknowledge something:
I know there are people in my church who understand what I’m saying.
I need to say that LOUDER:
I know there are people in my church who understand what I’m saying.
But there are so. many. people in my church who have no idea what I’m talking about.
There are people in my church who don’t want what I’m talking about.
There are people in my church who don’t give a flyin flip what I’m talking about.
And to beat a dead horse – I am not only referring to people who haven’t yet accepted Christ. This is NOT about evangelism.
I am primarily referring to people who have accepted Christ.
I accepted Christ 28 years ago and up until 2007, I wouldn’t have known what I was talking about if I explained it to me. (good luck following that.)
There are born-again Christians in my church who have never experienced abundant life in Christ through an intimate, no holds barred relationship with him, who have no idea what I mean by that, who flat out don’t want it and/or don’t think there’s any need for it.
And if the Christians aren’t witnesses to what Christ has done and is doing in our lives and in our church, how will the non-Christians – both the people seeking God and the people who think they are Christian but have never accepted Christ – ever see evidence that a life transformed by faith in Christ is any different from their own?
There are so. many. people. – Christians and non-Christians – at my church who don’t see any need for an intimate relationship with Christ. They don’t even know that what they are missing even exists.
And that realization causes me to grieve for my church. and to pray. persistently.
Because as much as God desires an intimate relationship with us, He won’t force us into it.
My church is not a Christ-centered church. The gospel is not the foundation of all we say and do.
My church has gone off on our own to accomplish good and reasonable things in the world.
My church is so focused on working for God it doesn’t even occur to us to come to the banquet and spend time with God.
My church isn’t refusing to open the door, we just can’t hear Him knocking over all the activity in the house.
There’s nothing I can do or say to bring revival to my church. There’s nothing anyone can do or say to bring revival to my church. Not even the pastor. A Christ-centered sermon here or there won’t do it. A compelling sermon won’t “convince” us to desire revival. Because revival doesn’t come from an intellectual decision to initiate it.
Yes, the Holy Spirit can anoint a pastor and use a 20 minute sermon to draw people to Christ. But if God were to move and stir revival in my church, He wouldn’t limit Himself to that 20 minutes. He would saturate the culture of the church in a foundational dependence on Christ that results in a consuming passion to worship Him, an underlying peace that comes from an unwavering trust in Him and JOY that trumps any unhappiness or trial we might face.
“We depend on God to help us.”
no. we don’t.
“Yes we do.”
no. we really don’t.
For all the things we do at my church, all the programs and classes and service and ministries and sermons and worship sets, we don’t – as a unified body of believers – acknowledge that without Christ at the center of all we say and do, we can’t accomplish ANYTHING of eternal significance.
At my church, we link arms and stand strong together;
we would kick butt in a game of Red Rover. At my church, we know how to follow instructions;
we would be champions at a Simon Says tournament. At my church, we are more loyal to each other
than the Robertson Family. At my church, if we had a box of dominoes, we would
line them up in nice, neat, reasonable, sensible rows
(I know a few who would prefer a game of Mexican train).
but.
We – as a unified body of believers – do NOT openly and consistently acknowledge that we are completely incapable of accomplishing anything on our own.
And there goes the first domino.
The second?Because we – as a unified body of believers – don’t acknowledge that the Holy Spirit – given to us freely through our faith in Christ – is the source of our strength and abilities, because we don’t approach EVERYthing we do – programs, classes, service, ministry and every aspect of our weekly services – with a openly shared understanding that we desperately need the Holy Spirit to equip us for these pursuits, we don’t make prayer our first step – our first priority – and humbly ask Him to do the equipping.
We don’t even ask Him if the things we are trying to do are within His will.
when the dominoes come tumbling down?
We set ’em up again.
We brainstorm and research and study and benchmark and make decisions based on good ideas and bad. We think and reason and rationalize and plan and execute – all without STOPPING. And spending “unreasonable” amounts of time in prayer asking God if these “things” we are planning are things He even wants us to do in the first place. As a unified body of believers, we don’t beg God to reveal to us our motivations and guide us to fruitfulness.
We are afraid to sincerely offer ourselves up and ask God to prune us. Why? Because we know He will?
Pruning HURTS.
But we need it. Because we are dragging the ground, covered in mud. Weak. Unfruitful.
We as a congregation need a clear understanding of what our church believes, what our values are, what our mission is, because without a clear understanding what we believe and why we believe it, we have nothing upon which to measure when it comes to evaluating whether or not all this stuff we’re doing supports those values.
We do good and reasonable things.
We do things because we’ve always done them.
We do things because they are efficient.
We do things because they make sense.
We do things to make people comfortable.
We do things so people won’t leave.
We don’t even consider the possibility that God might have something completely different in mind.
Something radical.
Something better than we ever thought or imagined.
Something we can’t accomplish without Him.
Something that would give Him all the glory.
Instead, we are…reasonable. and appropriate.
We don’t ask people to tell us how they came to faith in Christ.
Instead, we ask them how they came to our church.
Baptisms are for new babies, new members and new confirmands.
Professions of faith? new members and confirmands.
If someone comes to faith in Christ outside the schedule of a new member or confirmation class, what do they do?
Who do they tell?
How do we celebrate?
Is genuine worship something we as a body of Christ are confident we experience every week?
Or are there (too many?) times when “congregational singing” would be a better description?
How many of us wake up and go to church because that’s just what we do on Sunday morning?
How many of us wake up and go to church because we look forward to spending time with friends and family?
How many of us wake up and look forward to church because we know we will encounter the manifest presence of God?
Every week.
This is what I pray for my church:
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”
Matthew 16:15-18
“The gates of Hades will not overcome it.”
That’s not a church we can build on our own power. It’s a church only Christ can build.
But we have to realize we need the Father. And come home to Him empty handed.
We have to come to the banquet and spend time with Him.
We have to open the door and let Him in.
How do we get to that place? The place where we want to go home, want to spend time with him and want to open the door?
WE PRAY.
I’m praying desperately and persistently, that my church – as the body of CHRIST – would be profoundly dissatisfied with being nice people who do good things in pursuit of a “good Christian life.”
I’m praying desperately and persistently, that – as the body of CHRIST – we would dedicate ourselves to prayer and relentlessly ask Christ to draw us into an intimate relationship with Him that leads us to experience abundant life in Him.
because
THERE. IS. MORE.
“All the hearts who are content, And all who feel unworthy.
And all who hurt with nothing left, Will know that You are holy
And all will sing out, Hallelujah. And we will cry out, Hallelujah
Shout it, Go on scream it from the mountains
Go on and tell it to the masses, That He is God”
“We committed ourselves to unapologetic preaching, unashamed worship, unceasing prayer, and unafraid witness. And God began to reveal His glory slowly at first but increasingly over time.” Vertical Church: What Every Heart Longs for. What Every Church Can Be by James MacDonald
CLICK HERE to read the next post in this series, entitled: Vertical Church: a clarification. and a survey.
This is the 15th post of a series. If you need to catch up or review, CLICK HERE to view a page listing all the posts in the series.
This is the 13th post of a series. Hopefully, this is the LAST post on the turn or burn evangelism tangent that completely hijacked my original point. Next post, I’m back on topic. If you need to catch up or review, CLICK HERE to view a page listing all the posts in the series.
When I attended Baptist churches “back in the day,” I was expected to go “Visiting.” That meant participating in some very intentional and formulaic evangelism. Church members would gather at the church at an appointed time and then go “visit” people. Sometimes invited, sometimes just expected and sometimes the visits were “cold calls.” In every case, the circumstance was the same. The Visitors (always in pairs) were expected to show up at the home of someone they had never met, knock on the door and talk to them about Jesus.
My view on that?
Creepy. “oh great, the Christian stalkers know where I live, pull the curtains, turn off the TV and the lights and everybody be totally QUIET till they go away” creepy.
or is that just me?
Surprisingly, more often than not, The Visitors reported that people responded graciously, even when they said “no. I actually do NOT want to talk about Jesus” and “no, you definitely can NOT come in.”
In spite of my personal aversion to Visiting, I actually believe there are ZERO limitations for how people come to Jesus. I’ve heard stories about people coming to Christ through visiting, street evangelism, Christian tracts left in a public restroom, billboards, songs, bumper stickers…you name it. I agree with author and theologian Steve Harper when he said:
“Every form of evangelism works for some people.”
But the fact is, those things don’t draw people to Christ. Only God can do that.
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. John 6:44
I believe God can use anything and anybody to draw people to Himself.
I’m the one who places limitations on what God can do. Both back in the day AND today.
“Visiting?”
Never did it.
NEV.ER.
Not once.
And at one of those churches I was the music minister’s wife.
The music minister’s stubborn wife.
I used to say that evangelism wasn’t my spiritual gift.
But I knew the truth then and I know it now. I don’t like “Visiting.” Especially cold-call visiting.
KMN.
So while I don’t decide what God can and canNOT use to draw someone to Christ, it appears I do decide how I myself will be open to being used by the Holy Spirit.
Knowing that about myself, does that mean that given a chance, I would choose to go “Visiting?”
pshhhh. no.
If another Christian told me that all Christians “should” go Visiting, would I go?
nope.
If God prompted me to go Visiting, would I go?
hhhhhhhh.
I know me. and I’ve read the “yeah, but” conversation Moses had with God when God told him to do something he didn’t want to do. I would explain to God that those types of encounters are not my forte. I would remind God that I myself find that type of evangelism off-putting. I would remind Him of the fact that I am a witness in my everyday interactions with people. I would point out specific people He placed in my path, opportunities He provided and how I responded. I would ask him to equip me for those personal encounters. And I would conveniently neglect to mention the opportunities I let pass because I was too much of a coward to speak.
And if God listened to all that whining and still prompted me to go cold-call “Visiting?”
I would stall.
And eventually go. Because I’m not that stupid. I’ve also read the story of Jonah. Disobedience is MUCH more uncomfortable than cold-call evangelism.
So, yes. I would go. But I wouldn’t like it. And God would know it. Because He’s God. and He knows me. No need for pretense. That’s one of the best aspects of an intimate relationship. No need for a pious charade.
Just obedience.
The truth is that being a witness for Christ can mean very different things to very different people. Here are a few examples. (I must admit. My favorite is the guy with the megaphone.)
That video showed 7 variations on evangelism. My thought on each?
1. no.
2. no.
3. no.
4. no.
5. no.
6. no.
7. YES.
In my last post, I said that I’ve learned the hard way that the word “evangelism” does not have a one size fits all definition and that my personal working definition of evangelism is:
“Being a witness to what Christ has done and is doing in my life – because I’m so passionate about it I can’t keep it to myself.”
Within the framework of that definition, evangelism doesn’t take place at a certain time or place. For me, evangelism takes place in my everyday interpersonal interactions.
That means in the context of my everyday interactions with people, I am very open about my faith. Because I’ve learned that if I hide the thing that is most important in my life from the people I interact with in an effort to make them more comfortable, we will never be true friends. They will never know who I really am. I will be a big fake. The hiding would be deceitful. I tell people about my faith in Christ because it is such a integral part of my life that to hide it from people would be to hide myself. It would keep people at a distance.
So if you would be more comfortable with a fake friendship, I’m not your girl. We will never have a running text thread. And you will not have your own unique ring tone or text message notification on my cell phone.
We will never be more than acquaintances.
Here’s what evangelism looks like in my life: When I interact with people, the first thing I want to do is get to know more about them as an individual. I ask questions. I listen. I ask more questions. and I listen. Sometimes, the other person shares something about their own life or experiences or goals or dreams or obstacles or fears that calls to my mind something in my own life and experience – something which relates in some way to what they’ve shared with me. Since Christ is such an integral part of my life, it’s only natural that those experiences would be saturated by His presence and influence.
I don’t filter Him out of my life stories to make other people more comfortable.
What about you? Do you filter out what Christ has done and is doing in your life in an effort to make people more comfortable? To make yourself easier to like?
Are you hiding the most important part of yourself and in the process, sabotaging the potential for authentic friendships? Are you keeping people at a distance? Settling for another acquaintance when you could have a true friend? What happens if you give the other person more credit than that? What happens if you trust them accept you for who you are even if they are different than you?
Sharing what Christ has done and IS doing in my life occurs naturally within my interpersonal relationships. It stems from a genuine extension of friendship and respect. It stems from authentic transparency.
I used to think that if I was transparent about my faith I would be rejected. Sometimes I am.
Because sometimes?
We are not as tolerant as we would like to think.
But more often than not, I’ve found that people are very gracious. More than tolerant. Friendly and engaging even. Even when we don’t agree.
Why?
Because there is a HUGE difference between telling people what I believe and telling people what I think they should believe.
There is a HUGE difference between telling people how I live my life and telling people how I think they should live theirs.
There is a HUGE difference between telling people how my faith in Christ impacts my life and this:
The first is evangelism.
The second is just obnoxious.
“We are called to be witnesses – to show and tell what we have seen and what we know. We are to be a witness of the way that God, through faith, prayer, and the Bible, has transformed our lives.”
This is the 13th post of a series. Hopefully, this is the LAST post on the turn or burn evangelism tangent that completely hijacked my original point. Next post, I’m back on topic. If you need to catch up or review, CLICK HERE to view a page listing all the posts in the series.
oh, that’s bound to get me in trouble. I can hear it: “sacrilege!” “blasphemy!” “heathen!”
or maybe you’re thinking I’ve completely lost it.
evangelism. is like Halloween?
For those of you who will click away because you don’t have time to read a crazy woman’s blog, see ya later.
But for those of you who are saying “okay. I’ll bite. WHY is evangelism like Halloween?”
Here’s a little glimpse into the crazy that is me.
My kids go to a non-denominational Christian school. When they were little, every few years, one of them would come home from school in October and tell me that one of their teachers had told their class that celebrating Halloween was a sin. They came home with horrible stories about pagan practices and a load of guilt bigger than their backpacks.
I always responded the same way.
Me: “What does Halloween mean to you?”
Kids: “costumes. candy.”
Me: “That’s right. Do we practice any of those pagan rituals?”
Kids, alternating:“Minnie Mouse, Blue from Blues Clues, Cinderella, Jack Hammer Rescue Hero, Sleeping Beauty, Darth Vader, Barbie, a pirate, Boba Fett…”
Me: “That’s right. In our family, we celebrate Halloween because dressing up and trick-or-treating is fun. Costumes and candy. It’s sad that some people only see the bad things about Halloween. They’re missing out on all the fun part. Besides, you know what that means?”
Kids: “what?”
Me: “More candy for us.”
If you came away from that story with “Salvation is like getting candy.” then I am a terrible writer and you should just CLICK HERE and go waste your time somewhere else.
Here’s my point: Our family’s approach to and motivation for celebrating Halloween has nothing to do with the horrible things associated with Halloween and everything to do with what we love about Halloween.
Are there horrible things associated with Halloween?
yes.
We don’t celebrate Halloween because of those things.
Moving on to evangelism.
Over the last few weeks, I have learned the hard way that “evangelism” is not a simple word with a commonly accepted definition. Let’s look at two of them:
e·van·ge·lism /iˈvanjəˌlizəm/
1. The spreading of the Christian gospel by preaching or personal witness.
2. militant or crusading zeal
I choose Door Number 1.
Here’s what that definition looks like on the other side of my personal filters: “Being a witness to what Christ has done and is doing in my life – because I’m so passionate about it I can’t keep it to myself. Sometimes through opportunities to speak to a group, more often than not, one on one, within the context of my personal relationships.”
My approach to and motivation for sharing how my life is impacted by my faith in Christ has nothing to do with “militant or crusading zeal” and everything to do with the fact that my relationship with Christ is the best part of my life.
Some people, who know about the “militant and crusading zeal” definition (maybe because they’ve been a victim of it in the past?), will be hard pressed to hear any talk of Christ through any other filter. They would rather I shut the hell up. And be gone.
But here’s the thing. I don’t often talk about hell. Not because hell doesn’t exist. I believe it exists just like I believe pagan Halloween practices exist. And I’m not afraid of talking about hell. It’s just that hell is not at the forefront of my mind or my motivation when I talk about what Christ is doing in my life.
Rather, my passion for Christ stems overwhelmingly from the foundational peace and joy I experience because I am saturated by the intimacy of my relationship with Him.
So, to review. How is evangelism like Halloween?
Let’s extract two key paragraphs and compare:
Halloween: Our family’s approach to and motivation for celebrating Halloween has nothing to do with the horrible things associated with Halloween and everything to do with what we love about Halloween.
Evangelism: My approach to and motivation for sharing how my life is impacted by my faith in Christ has nothing to do with “militant or crusading zeal” and everything to do with the fact that my relationship with Christ is the best part of my life.
Is Halloween about pagan practices for you? Does evangelism mean "militant and crusading zeal" to you?
I am sorry for your loss. and more candy for me.
Tangent: Notice something. NOWHERE in the original definition #1 or in my filtered definition #1 is there ANY mention of converting people.
MrYehbut: “Well, you can’t deny that converting people is the goal of evangelism.”
Maybe for some. But they hold to a different definition of the word evangelism. Conversion is not my goal. Please don’t put words in my mouth or ulterior motives up my sleeve.
How am I so sure I don’t harbor a hidden goal to “convert” someone? Two reasons: (1) I am abso-flippin-lutly confident that I can’t convert anyone. Only God can do that. (2) I love being a stepping stone in someone’s growth. It’s my favorite part about training and coaching. I love asking people questions and I love learning what makes them tick. The side benefit is that I usually learn something in that process.
Tangent Complete.
Danger Will Robinson. Rant Ahead.
Here’s the thing. I understand that there are people who have been a victim of “militant and crusading zeal.” I’ve been a victim of militant and crusading zeal. But I saw the zealots for who they were. A misguided fragment. I did NOT automatically stuff all Christians who talk about their faith in a tiny little box and write them off as annoying wackadoodles to be ignored or venomously and sarcastically ridiculed.
I personally believe that most reasonable, tolerant people are intellectually capable of evaluating individuals and situations on their own merit.
Evangelism means different things to different people. I’ve explained why I tell people about my faith, but I haven’t explained how evangelism fits into my everyday life.
So I gotta tell you, when someone stamps “militant and crusading zealot” on my forehead before they get to know me, it’s my faith in God and my respect for them as an individual that keeps me from looking for my own stamp. The one that says “lazy bigot.”
“You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.” Acts 22:15
“Witnessing assumes that the results are up to us; being a witness assumes that the results are up to God…In biblical evangelism, there’s nothing you have to memorize, no techniques or sales pitches to practice, no complicated philosophical arguments to comprehend and communicate. It’s just telling your story naturally, in the midst of the many divine appointments the Lord gives you each day. In the biblical sense, a witness does not always witness, but a witness is always a witness who shows others what Jesus had done and is doing in his or her life…In fact, being an effective witness is as easy as inviting [someone] to have a cup of coffee.”
My mistake was that I started at the beginning. I should have started by stating my premise and then worked my way backward.
I attempted to chronicle what God had revealed to me and how. Telling the story in the order the events took place was not a good idea.
Terrible idea.
The only people who understood what I was getting at were people who already recognized what I was describing.
A few people who didn’t understand what I was getting at – and wanted to understand what I was getting at – either asked to meet with me or sent me a personal message and we talked through it.
Thank GOD for them. They have been a blessing and an encouragement while providing accountability.
But there have also been a few who didn’t understand. There have been some who summarized 10 blog posts with “she criticized the pastor” and/or “she wants there to be an invitation at the end of every sermon” and tawked amongst themselves, spreading unfounded gossip.
That’s unfortunate. and sad.
I can’t fix that. It would wear me out to even try. Instead, I’m praying the people hearing that summary won’t take someone else’s word for it and will want to see for themselves. I’m praying that those people will seek out my blog for firsthand information and that, as they read the posts, the Holy Spirit will guide them as they form their own individual thoughts about what I’ve written.
There are some people who are reading, taking it all in and are quietly pondering. I love me some thinkers. I’m praying that the Holy Spirit moves in their lives to draw them into an even deeper, more intimate relationship with Christ as they work through what they themselves believe about all that I’ve said.
Some people don’t give a flying flip what Julie Mills thinks.
I expected all of those responses. But some things I didn’t anticipate.
I didn’t anticipate that assumptions would be made about what God had revealed to me before I could get to that part of the story.
I didn’t anticipate that those assumptions would be so far off the mark.
I didn’t anticipate that the preconceived ideas of some of the people reading would so completely envelope and suffocate my true message.
I didn’t anticipate that people would disagree so strongly with me without understanding what they were disagreeing with.
I didn’t anticipate that I would get so sidetracked by the task of explaining what I was NOT talking about.
I didn’t anticipate that I would get completely derailed by tangents.
So I’ve made a decision. Forget my story. If I get back to it, I get back to it. If not?
meh.
I’m grateful for the lesson learned. If God leads me to tell this story in the future, I will start at the end and work my way backwards.
Me, lamenting to FirstHusband: “It’s like I started out talking about oranges, but before I could even finish describing one, some people assumed I was talking about apples. And not just apples, ROTTEN apples. Now, somehow, I find myself not only talking about apples, but clarifying in painful detail the difference between rotten apples and fresh apples. I have no idea if and when I’m ever going to get back to describing the orange.
(Here’s how to crack that Julie code: Oranges represent abundant life in Christ. Rotten apples represent fire and brimstone turn or burn evangelism and fresh apples represent being open about what Christ has done and is doing in your every day life with the people in your every day life.)
So. For those of you who give a flyin flip, I’ve got another post, or maybe two, about fresh vs. rotten apples coming up and then I’m gonna start peeling an orange.
“If you love learning, you love the discipline that goes with it—how shortsighted to refuse correction!” Proverbs 12:1
“A good listener tries to understand what the other person is saying. In the end he may disagree sharply, but because he disagrees, he wants to know exactly what it is he is disagreeing with.”
Kenneth A. Wells
This is the 11th post of a series. CLICK HERE to view a page listing all the posts in the series.
This is the 9th post of a series. CLICK HERE to view a page listing all the posts in the series.
oh, go ahead. click the youtube video. It’s 7 seconds.
Lemme ‘splain. No, there is too much. Lemme sum up.
When I talk about “preaching Christ”
I am NOT talking about preaching
“everybody is a sinner and they need Jesus or they’re going Hell.”
This is something we need to get out of the way before I continue. Purge this assumption from your mind. It is an obstacle to the actual message I’m trying to convey. A misleading tangent. A stumbling block. A wrong assumption.
So I need to say it again, louder.
When I talk about “preaching Christ”
I am NOT only talking about preaching
“everybody is a sinner and they need Jesus or they’re going Hell.”
My point, from the very beginning of this blog series is this:
THERE. IS. MORE!!!
and I WANT IT.
Is that whole “preaching Christ means preaching about getting saved” thing gone?
I’ve gotten some very eclectic feedback on this blog series. One of the reasons I held off hitting the publish button for as long as I did was that I knew that what I had written was filled with the potential to confuse, discourage and tick people off just as much as it had the potential to wake up, inspire and encourage people.
I wondered. Would I hear crickets? Would anybody even read it? Would anybody want to talk to me about what I’d written? Or would it make people so uncomfortable around me they would avoid eye contact and walk the other direction when they saw me coming? Would something I’d written hurt someone? Make them angry? Would people tolerate my ideas if they were different than their own? Would I be dismissed with the silent treatment? Would ANYone identify with me? Would ANYone agree with me?
The answer?
YES.
But one thing I didn’t expect was that some people would think that by saying I wanted a “Christ-centered” church and that I wanted my pastor to “preach Christ” I was saying I wanted every sermon to be like this:
or worse yet, like this: (be sure and read it with a southern accent and yell the one syllable words that have morphed into two syllable words ending in “ah.”)
“EV-ER-EEbody IS A HORRIBLE, SINNER!!!! IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST-tah, IF YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN-nah, YOU’RE DESTINED-dah TO BURN IN HELL-lah FOR ETERNITY. DO I HEAR AN AMEN?!”
seriously.
That is NOT what I’m talking about.
and yet, in spite of everything I had written, that’s what some readers were coming away with.
I’m telling you. It was driving me nuts. I went back over my Christ-centered posts again and again and I didn’t SEE it. I could NOT find it.
WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? WHERE DID I SEND THAT MESSAGE?
I didn’t.
Kudos to my friend “Flutterby43” for reminding me about decoding. Sad, really. I was a communication major. I should have remembered this.
Encoding is, to simplify it, the words and pictures I use to convey my message. DEcoding is how that message is interpreted. The constant here is that the encoding of my message is the same for everyone who is reading my blog posts. The variables are the personal filters that my message has to make it through as people interpret (decode) that message. The discrepancies in those interpretations are due to the fact that sometimes my message isn’t making it through the decoding process unscathed by those personal filters.
Translated? We all have baggage, people. And sometimes, that baggage leads us to interpret – or decode – messages in messages that aren’t really there. I’ve done it. We’ve all done it. We’ll all do it again.
But this time, I got some feedback about this message.
Here’s the conversation that finally led me to figure it out:
Flutterby43: “My quiet, introverted nature gravitates toward a more contemplative worship style, and I would be overwhelmed and, yes, SCARED by fire and brimstone – but I totally get where you’re coming from.”
Me: “Your comment “fire and brimstone.” Where does that come from? You’re not the first person to take that away. What did I say that caused you to think that? I can’t find it. I don’t see it.”
Flutterby43: “You didn’t use the term – That’s just my phraseology – honestly, if I had a pastor telling me every week that I needed Jesus, because I’m a hopeless sinner, it’d get old. (Again, that’s just my interpretation of what you’re saying) I know I need Jesus. I know I’m a sinner. But I’m just not an “in your face” kinda gal. I tend to beat myself up on my own – if I heard that every week, I’d come away from church feeling so bad about myself, I’d probably just crawl into bed and never leave the house!” (emphasis added)
Me: “ahhhhhhhh. Thank you! That was driving me crazy. I think I get it. “Preaching Christ” gives the impression that I’m talking about evangelism. and it appears evangelism means “fire and brimstone” and “turn or burn” to some people. I REALLY need to finish this series. I still haven’t gotten through what I mean by Gospel and preaching Christ. I thought I clarified that I wasn’t just talking about evangelism, in my post “the gospel is more than evangelism,” but I need to hurry up and explain – more and better.
There’s more to Christ than salvation.”
I knew when I started posting this series that it was long and that it would take me a while to get through it, but I didn’t think through how the drawn out nature of the process could lead to premature and incorrect assumptions about my point.
My bad.
The fact is, some people are going to run my message through their personal internal filters and think I am saying:
“I want to hear fire and brimstone turn or burn sermons every week. And every chance they get, I think everybody in my church should tell all their friends (and strangers) that if they don’t repent they’re going to hell! And when they don’t, they should feel really guilty about it. It’s just more evidence that everybody is a horrible, hopeless sinner and bad Christian.”
That’s NOT what I’m saying. Thankfully, from the feedback I’m receiving, I’m confident that some people are identifying with what I actually AM saying – my true message is resonating with them.
But here’s the thing, now that I know there are some people are going to interpret the words “Christ-centered” as “fire and brimstone turn or burn evangelism”, it’s MY RESPONSIBILITY TO MODIFY MY ENCODING in an effort to clarify my message and minimize any misinterpretation.
So, I’m holding off on my story for a little longer. I’ve got some encoding work to do.
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. Ephesians 4:29 (ESV)
“Everything is made to center upon the initial act of “accepting” Christ . . . and we are not expected thereafter to crave any further revelation of God to our souls. We have been snared in the coils of a spurious logic which insists that if we have found Him we need no more seek Him. This is set before us as the last word in orthodoxy, and it is taken for granted that no Bible-taught Christian ever believed otherwise. Thus the whole testimony of the worshipping, seeking, singing Church on that subject is crisply set aside. The experiential heart-theology of a grand army of fragrant saints is rejected in favor of a smug interpretation of Scripture which would certainly have sounded strange to an Augustine, a Rutherford or a Brainerd.” The Pursuit of God (free on Kindle from Amazon)
by A. W. Tozer.
This is the 9th post of a series. CLICK HERE to view a page listing all the posts in the series.
I’ve been telling a story these last 8 blog posts. I got through August of 2012. But I have to interrupt myself. The story can wait.
Today, my pastor preached Christ.
and I mean he PREACHED Christ.
In his words, “TESTIFY!”
Today, my pastor preached an evangelical sermon. Not one person left my church today without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not one person left my church today without hearing how their lives could be changed by placing their faith in Jesus.
not. ONE.
AMEN.
I sought him out. I had to tell him:
“I am actively praying that the culture of this church and the foundation of every sermon will be saturated in the core of the message you gave today. THANK YOU.”
but here’s the thing.
the gospel is so much bigger than a sermon.
one sermon canNOT change the culture of my church.
one man canNOT change the culture of my church.
Even if He tried to do it through sermons alone, not every sermon can be about accepting Jesus. Evidencing the gospel of Jesus Christ is much more straightforward within the context of an evangelistic sermon than it is in sermons addressing every facet of our lives as Christians.
The gospel is much MUCH more than evangelism.
I need to say that again, even louder.
The gospel is much MUCH more than evangelism.
I’m a reader. It’s a freakish obsession. And I’ve learned something I want to know more about.
Jesus can be found in EVERY. Book. of. the. Bible.
“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me” John 5:39
I want to hear more. I want to learn more. I NEED to learn more.
I want to dig DEEPER than what this kid can tell me in 4 minutes
I want to find Jesus in every nook and cranny of my Bible. EVERY WEEK.
I will NEVER tire of learning about the redemptive story of Jesus Christ.
“Now, you may be thinking, Okay, the message of the Bible is Christ; I got it. But we have to talk about other things too. Didn’t Paul talk about singing, home life, master-slave relationships, and his coworkers in Colossians 3 and 4?
Yes, he did. However, he addressed all of these topics in the light of Christ. The other subjects were like spokes in a wheel, the wheel being Christ Himself…
So Christ is found in the big picture, but He’s also found in the smallest details. he’s at the forefront of all spiritual things, yet He’s present in the practical things as well.
How did Paul put it in Colossians 3:11? “Christ is all and in all.”
[This post is the eighth in a multi-part series, written mostly in early autumn 2012, published now for the first time. Here are the previous posts in order by date:
This is the 7th post of a series. To read the sixth post, entitled “going through the motions” CLICK HERE.
If you need some context, links to all of the previous posts are provided at the end of this post.
Back to August 2012.
In the middle of everything that was happening, I was struck with a memory that cut through 25 years. Buried in my mind, probably nestled somewhere between the lyrics of Gilligan’s Island and The Brady Bunch, was a scene from the movie Labyrinth.
Seems straightforward. Just a story. A fairy tale.
But even the filmmakers intended it to be a metaphor.
Here’s the backstory/narrative:
The protagonist, a young girl named Sarah, was on a quest. She had to find her way through a magical labyrinth in search of a child who had been stolen by an evil King.
At one point, the evil King causes Sarah to lose her memory and she finds herself in the middle of a junk yard. As she stands, she braces herself against what she thinks is a pile of junk, but it turns out to be a woman, with about 3 feet of junk strapped to her back. There are more junk people everywhere, sifting through piles. As Sarah looks around with a confused expression on her face; all she can remember is that she was searching for something.
She wanders aimlessly through the junk yard, followed by the Junk Lady who’s babbling incessantly. After a few minutes, Sarah stops, looking around, lost and bewildered, and mumbles,
“I was searching for something.”
The Junk Lady, immediately responsive, says “Well, look here!” and hands Sarah what appears to be her Teddy Bear.
Sarah, recognizing something familiar and comforting, immediately takes the Teddy Bear and thanks the Junk Lady who replies “That’s what you were looking for, wasn’t it my dear?” Sarah holds the bear close
“Yes. I forgot.”
Then the Junk Lady leads Sarah through a path in the junk, toward a door, saying “Why don’t you come in here and see if there’s anything else you like?” Sarah steps through the door into what appears to be her bedroom. Filled with relief, she throws herself on her bed and covers her head with a pillow.
She’s home. She’s safe.
Until she opens her bedroom door to find her father. At which point, the Junk Lady barges in,
“Better to stay in here dear! There’s nothing you want out there.”
She begins handing Sarah stuffed animals and dolls and toys, naming each one and reminding Sarah how much she loves them. As Sarah sits, her arms overloaded with dolls and toys, she seems almost in a trance and softly says, “There was something I was looking for.” The Junk Lady immediately tells her
“Don’t talk nonsense! It’s all here, everything in the world you’ve ever cared about is all right here.”
Still loaded down with all the stuff the Junk Lady has been handing her, Sarah spots a book and reaches for it.
It’s the story she’s in. The story she’s forgotten she’s in. She begins reading:
“Through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered…”
Suddenly, she remembers. And the Junk Lady knows it. “What’s the matter my dear, don’t you like your toys?”
Sarah is overcome with the realization: “It’s all junk!”
She throws one of the “treasures” the Junk Lady has given her and suddenly the walls of the room begin to collapse, revealing the truth. She’s in the middle of a junk yard.
It was a facade.
I looked around the sanctuary and I could see it. It was a facade.
Without Christ, it’s all junk.
Does that offend you? Stay with me, I’m making a point. I promise.
Sarah was looking for something, but she was deceived into believing all that other stuff was what she really needed and wanted.
The truth behind that scene hit home 25 years ago and it cuts even deeper today. The evil King was powerful. Why didn’t he just throw her into a dungeon? Why didn’t he just kill her? Satan is evil and he has power in this world. Why doesn’t he order some evil little minion destroy that sanctuary?
Because there’s no need. It’s too easy to distract instead. To provide things of comfort and security. Beautiful things. Things that make sense and are familiar.
Good things.
Good enough things.
If you think about it, most things that end up in a junk yard were desired at some point. Somewhere along the line, someone bought or made or was given each and every item. Whether functional and useful or just something pretty to look at (and dust), the items that end up in the junk yard are things that no longer have value to us.
Temporal things.
Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18
Sarah could have embraced the facade of her bedroom and all the things she thought she wanted and needed. She could have abandoned her quest and settled into a life of comfort and security, forgetting all about the child she was searching for, never venturing outside her comfort zone, never talking to the junk people or dealing with all that junk. But thankfully, because of a book, she remembered.
Once she discovered the truth, she knew she couldn’t stay nestled in that safe, comfortable facade. She intentionally destroyed the facade of comfort and safety even though it meant coming face to face with the junk.
Because she remembered she was looking for something.
[This post is the seventh in a multi-part series, written mostly in early autumn 2012, published now for the first time. Here are the previous posts in order by date:
If you’re new to the party, HERE are the previous posts in this series. If you want to skip the history and prefer the twitter version, I’m having an ongoing conversation with a born-again atheist. When I say “born-again atheist” I mean he was a born again Christian, but is now an atheist.
(free on Kindle from Amazon)
by Leonard Sweet and Frank Viola
